Comments for http://www.searchingtogether.org/blog Sun, 13 May 2012 12:15:33 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 Comment on WHEN ARE WE GOING TO WAKE UP TO REALITY? The Nightmare of the Pastoral Institution by Jon Zens http://www.searchingtogether.org/blog/?p=80#comment-2343 Jon Zens Sun, 13 May 2012 12:15:33 +0000 http://www.searchingtogether.org/blog/?p=80#comment-2343 Mike -- I think it is certainly true that there are varying percentages of people in churches who are not rooted in Christ. The "worst" of churches usually has a few people who love Christ in them; and the "best" of churches have people who love the Lord in them. The Lord is bigger than any bad system, The Lord's people will be found everywhere, even in the strangest spots! Those who are Christ's will have further revelations of Him as time goes on, so that where they find themselves today will not be where they are five years from now. The Lord provides pasture for each of His sheep. It is not our place to police what is going on in those places that call themselves church. The Lord knows those who are His. Mike — I think it is certainly true that there are varying percentages of people in churches who are not rooted in Christ. The “worst” of churches usually has a few people who love Christ in them; and the “best” of churches have people who love the Lord in them. The Lord is bigger than any bad system, The Lord’s people will be found everywhere, even in the strangest spots! Those who are Christ’s will have further revelations of Him as time goes on, so that where they find themselves today will not be where they are five years from now. The Lord provides pasture for each of His sheep. It is not our place to police what is going on in those places that call themselves church. The Lord knows those who are His.

]]> Comment on HUMBLE PIE, ANYONE? by Bryon Wiebold http://www.searchingtogether.org/blog/?p=190#comment-2340 Bryon Wiebold Wed, 18 Apr 2012 03:33:46 +0000 http://www.searchingtogether.org/blog/?p=190#comment-2340 Great article, Jon. I have been contemplating similar concepts in relation to Father's House. Humility is the primary law of the Father's House. Humility is the basis upon which His children and sons can know the presence and power of their Father, who is Almighty God. (Isaiah 57:15) God will readily dwell and reveal His power when the law of His House is observed and the true humility of Christ is allowed to govern in all things. As the work of the cross is effected by experience, the believer is brought into oneness with the humility of the exalted Lord of the House and begins a practical experience of the spiritual reality of the House of God. Great article, Jon. I have been contemplating similar concepts in relation to Father’s House.

Humility is the primary law of the Father’s House. Humility is the basis upon which His children and sons can know the presence and power of their Father, who is Almighty God.
(Isaiah 57:15)

God will readily dwell and reveal His power when the law of His House is observed and the true humility of Christ is allowed to govern in all things.

As the work of the cross is effected by experience, the believer is brought into oneness with the humility of the exalted Lord of the House and begins a practical experience of the spiritual reality of the House of God.

]]> Comment on WHEN ARE WE GOING TO WAKE UP TO REALITY? The Nightmare of the Pastoral Institution by Mike http://www.searchingtogether.org/blog/?p=80#comment-2339 Mike Wed, 11 Apr 2012 11:11:09 +0000 http://www.searchingtogether.org/blog/?p=80#comment-2339 This may seem anathema to you Jon but I believe the reason for the whole pyramid church hierarchy thing is that most people in the church are just unregenerate and unregenerate people form these systems in everything they do naturally. There is no reforming the Babylonian system with Babylonian people still in the majority, it just won't happen. Salvation has been made a work of men by coercion and intellect and has filled the "church" with friends and relatives in whom we love and God has not chosen. We can deceive ourselves thinking that the people in the church are just in a bad system, but the truth is the system is just a reflection of the heart of the people. This may seem anathema to you Jon but I believe the reason for the whole pyramid church hierarchy thing is that most people in the church are just unregenerate and unregenerate people form these systems in everything they do naturally. There is no reforming the Babylonian system with Babylonian people still in the majority, it just won’t happen. Salvation has been made a work of men by coercion and intellect and has filled the “church” with friends and relatives in whom we love and God has not chosen. We can deceive ourselves thinking that the people in the church are just in a bad system, but the truth is the system is just a reflection of the heart of the people.

]]> Comment on HUMBLE PIE, ANYONE? by Tobie http://www.searchingtogether.org/blog/?p=190#comment-2338 Tobie Sat, 31 Mar 2012 08:15:43 +0000 http://www.searchingtogether.org/blog/?p=190#comment-2338 Thanks so much for this, Jon. I think most of us seriously misunderstand humility. Perhaps William Law said it best: "Humility is not thinking less of yourself but thinking of yourself less." A regular ingredient of pride is a sense of accomplishment, and so it is really impossible to pursue humility and find it, for the sense of accomplishment at the end of the journey will destroy it. I love Kierkegaard's "God always creates out of nothing, and so before he can use something he first reduces it to nothing." It reminds me that the Ad nihilo is as much God's prerogative as the Ex nihilo. We can no more engineer the work of the cross than we can fabricate the resurrection. Both the law that kills in Romans 7 and the Spirit that gives life in Romans 8 come from God. And so I suspect that true humility is impossible without some or other deep, painful and unanticipated disillusionment in one's "life in this world", and that includes our religious "wish dreams" (to use Bonhoeffer's term). Thanks again, Jon. Your ministry is a blessing. Thanks so much for this, Jon. I think most of us seriously misunderstand humility. Perhaps William Law said it best: “Humility is not thinking less of yourself but thinking of yourself less.” A regular ingredient of pride is a sense of accomplishment, and so it is really impossible to pursue humility and find it, for the sense of accomplishment at the end of the journey will destroy it. I love Kierkegaard’s “God always creates out of nothing, and so before he can use something he first reduces it to nothing.” It reminds me that the Ad nihilo is as much God’s prerogative as the Ex nihilo. We can no more engineer the work of the cross than we can fabricate the resurrection. Both the law that kills in Romans 7 and the Spirit that gives life in Romans 8 come from God. And so I suspect that true humility is impossible without some or other deep, painful and unanticipated disillusionment in one’s “life in this world”, and that includes our religious “wish dreams” (to use Bonhoeffer’s term). Thanks again, Jon. Your ministry is a blessing.

]]> Comment on HUMBLE PIE, ANYONE? by SYBILJEAN http://www.searchingtogether.org/blog/?p=190#comment-2337 SYBILJEAN Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:14:15 +0000 http://www.searchingtogether.org/blog/?p=190#comment-2337 "eat humble pie To come down off one’s high horse, swallow one’s pride, and submit to mortification and humiliation; to be forced to apologize and defer to others; to eat crow, to eat dirt, or to eat one’s words. In this expression, humble derives from the obsolete umbles ‘heart, liver, and entrails of the deer.’ Apparently these parts were considered leftovers suitable only for the huntsman and other servants. When the lord and his company feasted on venison, the others ate the umbles that had been made into a pie. Thus, “umble pie” was suggestive of poverty and lowly status. Since humble also connotes lowliness and subservience, the simple fact of confusion gave rise to eat humble pie, used as early as the beginning of the 19th century." UMBLES ANYONE?! : ] “eat humble pie To come down off one’s high horse, swallow one’s pride, and submit to mortification and humiliation; to be forced to apologize and defer to others; to eat crow, to eat dirt, or to eat one’s words. In this expression, humble derives from the obsolete umbles ‘heart, liver, and entrails of the deer.’ Apparently these parts were considered leftovers suitable only for the huntsman and other servants. When the lord and his company feasted on venison, the others ate the umbles that had been made into a pie. Thus, “umble pie” was suggestive of poverty and lowly status. Since humble also connotes lowliness and subservience, the simple fact of confusion gave rise to eat humble pie, used as early as the beginning of the 19th century.” UMBLES ANYONE?! : ]

]]> Comment on HUMBLE PIE, ANYONE? by Jon Zens http://www.searchingtogether.org/blog/?p=190#comment-2335 Jon Zens Mon, 26 Mar 2012 01:20:10 +0000 http://www.searchingtogether.org/blog/?p=190#comment-2335 The following comment was made by John Garrott on a Facebook group: "I just joined this group in the hope of some good honest discussion and fellowship. So sad to see everyone abandoning ship. The same thing has happened in every other group I have been to. We just need to get on with what God is showing us and if another person has an axe to grind, let them get on with it until God gets through to them." To me, this observation should serve to underscore the importance of the points I made in "Humble Pie, Anyone?" It would seem that it is too easy for us to be deflected from absolute satisfaction in Christ into agendas and topics that stir up the wrong things in us. The following comment was made by John Garrott on a Facebook group:

“I just joined this group in the hope of some good honest discussion and fellowship. So sad to see everyone abandoning ship. The same thing has happened in every other group I have been to. We just need to get on with what God is showing us and if another person has an axe to grind, let them get on with it until God gets through to them.”

To me, this observation should serve to underscore the importance of the points I made in “Humble Pie, Anyone?” It would seem that it is too easy for us to be deflected from absolute satisfaction in Christ into agendas and topics that stir up the wrong things in us.

]]> Comment on HUMBLE PIE, ANYONE? by Jim Puntney http://www.searchingtogether.org/blog/?p=190#comment-2334 Jim Puntney Sun, 25 Mar 2012 13:49:07 +0000 http://www.searchingtogether.org/blog/?p=190#comment-2334 Pride is insidious, we all have and are to some degree infected with this ailment. As you stated Jon, the only antidote is the cross of Christ, unity is found there. When we gather there we see community, for we all are equal in the need of His grace and love. We all are equal in our common hope on Christ, we all are equal in our indebtedness to this marvelous, and magnificent friend of ours Jesus the Christ. Thank you Jon for your post. Pride is insidious, we all have and are to some degree infected with this ailment. As you stated Jon, the only antidote is the cross of Christ, unity is found there. When we gather there we see community, for we all are equal in the need of His grace and love. We all are equal in our common hope on Christ, we all are equal in our indebtedness to this marvelous, and magnificent friend of ours Jesus the Christ.

Thank you Jon for your post.

]]> Comment on The Body With One Part? by Jon Zens http://www.searchingtogether.org/blog/?p=155#comment-2333 Jon Zens Wed, 21 Mar 2012 18:54:53 +0000 http://www.searchingtogether.org/blog/?p=155#comment-2333 Leana, thanks for your comment! It would seem that many sisters are questioning the status-quo. For many, this issue boils down to whether a woman can stand behind a pulpit and deliver a sermon. But, to me, it opens up the whole question as to why our gatherings have traditionally focused on one key person doing most of the important functioning. Paul, on the other hand, envisions a get-together where "each and every one" has an edifying contribution to add to the spiritual meal (1 Cor 14:26). What good does it do to suggest that women can participate, when in fact in most "worship services" neither the men nor the women can play a part -- except to sing some songs and put a check in the offering plate? Leana, thanks for your comment! It would seem that many sisters are questioning the status-quo. For many, this issue boils down to whether a woman can stand behind a pulpit and deliver a sermon. But, to me, it opens up the whole question as to why our gatherings have traditionally focused on one key person doing most of the important functioning. Paul, on the other hand, envisions a get-together where “each and every one” has an edifying contribution to add to the spiritual meal (1 Cor 14:26). What good does it do to suggest that women can participate, when in fact in most “worship services” neither the men nor the women can play a part — except to sing some songs and put a check in the offering plate?

]]> Comment on The Body With One Part? by Leana http://www.searchingtogether.org/blog/?p=155#comment-2332 Leana Mon, 19 Mar 2012 20:51:14 +0000 http://www.searchingtogether.org/blog/?p=155#comment-2332 Amen! Jesus has been clearing my vision and allowing me to see how women have been discounted by the current system! and so many other revelations I am so excited that our true identity In Christ is being revealed! I thank you for your heart and yeilding to His glorious work in you Christ is our hope of glory! Amen! Jesus has been clearing my vision and allowing me to see how women have been discounted by the current system! and so many other revelations I am so excited that our true identity In Christ is being revealed! I thank you for your heart and yeilding to His glorious work in you Christ is our hope of glory!

]]> Comment on HUMBLE PIE, ANYONE? by Anthony Kasper http://www.searchingtogether.org/blog/?p=190#comment-2330 Anthony Kasper Sat, 10 Mar 2012 22:42:13 +0000 http://www.searchingtogether.org/blog/?p=190#comment-2330 This comment is so important! “Most of us easily assume that we listen to others. Perhaps. But perhaps not. We hear all the words and sentences, but whether we heed is another matter. Receiving sound waves from another human being requires only a normal hearing apparatus and a sufficiently wakeful state. Listening to that person is incomparably more complex. All of us, therefore, need to learn to listen.” When I used to sell hearing aids one of the first things we learned was most people, no matter how bad their hearing seemed to be, could hear but not understand clearly. Hearing and listening are two very different things. Listening for me has meant to shut up and care about what the other person has to say even if it is wrong, even if it is hateful. Seems to me Jesus was a good listener. When the people said what they had to say then He gave an answer or may have asked them another question so He could listen again. Christ words today are still heard and listened to because He cared enough to listen to us as well. I want to learn to listen better to others so that I may hear Christ more. Good word brother, thanks This comment is so important! “Most of us easily assume that we listen to others. Perhaps. But perhaps not. We hear all the words and sentences, but whether we heed is another matter. Receiving sound waves from another human being requires only a normal hearing apparatus and a sufficiently wakeful state. Listening to that person is incomparably more complex. All of us, therefore, need to learn to listen.”

When I used to sell hearing aids one of the first things we learned was most people, no matter how bad their hearing seemed to be, could hear but not understand clearly. Hearing and listening are two very different things. Listening for me has meant to shut up and care about what the other person has to say even if it is wrong, even if it is hateful. Seems to me Jesus was a good listener. When the people said what they had to say then He gave an answer or may have asked them another question so He could listen again. Christ words today are still heard and listened to because He cared enough to listen to us as well.

I want to learn to listen better to others so that I may hear Christ more.

Good word brother, thanks

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